- 10-15-2009, 01:39 PM by Hexameron #76
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FM: Curse of the Carnival
File: carnival.zip
Ghost - Failed and {Aborted}
Time - 00:41:24
Loot - 275/305
Pockets Picked - 0/2
Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 0 Damage taken - 4
Healing taken - 0 Kills - 0
Secrets Found - 1/0
Causes of Failure:
1. Cannot reach required puzzle piece without triggering a script that alerts
multiple AI in monster house.
(2). I had trouble figuring out the green light puzzle and gave up my ghost
run. I looked on TTLG and learned that my version Beta 1.3 doesn't have a clue
about solving it.
(3). Even after consulting a TTLG thread for clues and solving the puzzle, I
could not proceed and finish my last objective of putting the cursed vase back
after falling into the room below the wagon.
Comments - This is another really old T2 FM that no one has ever
reported. Perhaps I have an earlier version of the FM because according to the
author on TTLG, there is a completed version. I downloaded mine from Thief
Missions, so I expected after eight years, the final version would have been
uploaded there.
I was fine ghosting up to the point of the big spider in the monster house:
I needed to get a vital puzzle piece lying near the spider's legs, but walking
close to the spider causes the bottom wooden beams to break, making a loud
noise and alerting everyone inside the house. Subsequently, the spider starts
searching:
I used a gas arrow on it and retrieved the puzzle piece.
The green light puzzle is just horrible. I liked this mission up until that. No
amount of random frobbing of lights worked. If I really wanted to solve it
without the clues that are apparently given in a scroll in another version of
the FM, I would have to write down on a grid what lights are affected by each
mushroom button. That might take me an hour, so I ended my game and searched on
TTLG. There I learned that others had similar problems, but one version of the
FM includes a hint scroll. I read on TTLG what I needed to do and finally got
all of the green lights to flicker on the board.
I still couldn't finish the mission, though. After falling down below the wagon
(and taking damage), I was trapped in a room with rainbow-colored hues of
light. I tried using rope arrows to get out, but per the plotline of this FM,
none of Ryalla's equipment works correctly. I used my maze bag that sprinkles
little stones to express my desperation before hitting ctrl+alt+shift+end:
- 10-20-2009, 08:17 PM by Peter
Smith #77
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FM: Greenbay
File: Greenbay.zip
Perfect Thief - Success
Time - 03:28:47 (+ 4 hour BJ run 
)
Loot - 5159/5159
Pockets Picked - 9/10
Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 0 Damage taken - 0
Healing taken - 0 Kills - 0
Secrets Found - 1/0
Comments - As Hexameron says, this is a medium city mission with no
significant ghosting challenges. That does not begin to tell the story.
This mission was right up my alley. Lots of nooks and crannies and lots of ups
and downs. I really like DrK's style. This mission offers a huge amount of
exploration and fun for only a 3 MB download because it purposefully uses only
original Thief 2 resources.
The mission was made quickly as a tribute to the 10th anniversary of Thief.
Although some people thought that the Easter egg was too easy to find, I found
it reasonably challenging to get there. I found two routes, neither of which
were obvious. The Easter egg was the tribute, as shown by Hexameron in his
screen shots. I liked the touch of several boxes of Thief Gold counting as
loot.
I liked the AI numbers and timing in this mission. There were lots of AI, and
one had to be patient. A non-ghoster might be intimidated. But once their
patrol patterns were clear it was easy to get around them.
Loot was a challenge in this mission, and I had a problem with it, as did many
other players. People did not get it all during beta testing, and most players
could not get close to all of it. Nobody that I know of has prepared a loot
list, not that I would have used it, of course. I stopped ghosting at 3:09 and
did a long (4 hour) and extensive BJ run in which I visited every room and
corner 3-4 times. Loot that gave me trouble was:
A purple goblet in plain sight on a table next to the mechanist building. I got
this once, and evidently I lost it in a reload, so I didn't go back there until
late in the game.
A purse in a shallow water area with metal railings, not far from the easter
egg.
And, last, but definitely not least in terms of effort, three coins in a
fountain. I felt like breaking into song after finding those.
The thing that threw me off on the last bit is that I went to TTLG to ask DrK
about the last 15, and he indicated that they were probably a coin stack on a
beam or behind a bed. I checked all those places many times and almost gave up.
Came back for the last time tonight and found it. I feel better now.
"What we've got here is a failure to communicate", the warden
(Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke
- 10-21-2009, 09:54 PM by Tannar #78
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Nice work Peter. I love that mission too but never did find all the loot.
Finally gave up. Glad you stuck with it.
- 10-21-2009, 11:54 PM by Hexameron #79
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The Dark Mod
TDM FM: The Chalice of Kings
Ghost - Success Failed
Perfect Thief - Failed
Time - 00:51:05
Loot - 2741/2956
Pockets Picked - 6
Damage dealt - 0 Damage taken - 0
Kills - 0 Knockouts - 0
Bodies Found - 0
Health Restored - 0
Stealth Score - 3
Comments - Well, The Dark Mod is finally available after five or
more years of development and the end product is quite astonishing. I haven't
played the FM's built from earlier versions of TDM, such as "Thief's
Den" and "The Tears of Saint Lucia," but the three FM's released
in conjunction with TDM 1.0 demonstrate amazing work and promising potential.
TDM is what T3 should have been. Lockpicking, flashbombs, blackjacking,
mantling, and inventory management are infinitely better than T3. Additionally,
TDM's textures, art design, atmosphere, game mechanics, and engine get
everything right that T3 got wrong. And TDM has rope arrows and swimming; 'nuff
said.
But I can't really evaluate TDM adequately after playing the three FM's
released with it. Obviously, it's not perfect and I could mention some
grievances, especially with AI behavior and voice acting. One thing I didn't
like about T3, which TDM also suffers from, is that the light gem's gradations
don't really matter. In T1/T2, the nuances of the light gem had a huge impact
on gameplay and the player can avoid a first alert even with a fairly
yellow-colored light gem. TDM's light gem is not so flexible. A few hues above
pitch black will put an AI regardless of distance on first alert. Of course,
this is only the first version of TDM and I expect it will undergo many
improvements. Regardless of any minor gripes I have, TDM is an enormous success
and a genuine work of art: it demonstrates beautifully what a Thief game is all
about, where T3 failed, and what Thief 4 should aspire to be.
"The Chalice of Kings" despite its small size, is immersive and fun,
although it posed no great challenges for me while ghosting. I'm still new to
the gameplay and controls, but I had no problems with getting around undetected
except when stealing King Aldreth's crown. Here is a classic case, reminiscent
of T1's RTC and T3's Sunken Citadel, of stealing an item to satisfy an
objective that inevitably puts AI on second alert. The player does start with a
false crown in the inventory and the "steal the crown" objective
suggests using it to "delay" any alerts. To get the crown, I mossed
the tiled floor and doused most torches around its pedestal. There is a lantern
above that creates a small aura of light around the pedestal. Therefore, I
couldn't move too close to it or the guard on the left would notice. So I crept
up and leaned forward until I could loot the real crown. I then dropped the
fake one onto the plush pillow of the pedestal. I couldn't avoid a first alert
when doing this:
Either I didn't do it right or the fake crown doesn't fool the guards. I backed
away from the area and observed a patrolling guard notice the missing crown,
which upset everyone in the vicinity:
There is enough darkness in the hallway to escape without anyone seeing me and
I went back to the mission start with no problems.
I played this again and went on a blackjack run and I still couldn't find all
of the loot! 
Here's
one example of how authors could really be clever when hiding loot. Frobbing
and removing a loose brick reveals a purse:
The "stealth score" of 3 in my final stats confused me. According to
the author who explained it on TTLG: "The stealth score is going
to be reviewed and hopefully rewritten. At the moment it starts at 10 and 1
point is deducted for even tiny alerts that you might not even notice. Think
extreme ghosting then double it. Also remember these AI can see further than in
Thief so they might mutter something far down a corridor that you don't even
hear. "... thought I saw something ... must have been rats" kind of
thing."
So I guess I didn't do too well with 3/10 
I
bet Sneak and Klatremus would get a perfect 10 on their first playthrough.
*Edit* According to Peter Smith's report, it is possible to avoid alerting the
guards after stealing the crown, so I've changed my status to failed. The
original content of my report will remain unchanged until I replay this and
mirror Peter's success of replacing the crown.
Last edited by Hexameron; 10-26-2009 at 06:55 PM.
- 10-21-2009, 11:59 PM by Hexameron #80
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The Dark Mod
TDM FM: The Crown of Penitence
Ghost - Success
Perfect Thief - Failed
Time - 00:21:59
Loot - 1115/1486
Pockets Picked - 2
Damage dealt - 0 Damage taken - 0
Kills - 0 Knockouts - 0
Bodies Found - 0
Health Restored - 0
Stealth Score - 9
Comments - For its brevity, this mission is probably the most
difficult of the trio of FM's released. The AI patrols in the kitchen and
marble-floored hallways can be intense. I was really careful about avoiding
some loot because it would upset AI. The guard observing the builder icon in a
hallway notices if it's taken. I think but can't confirm that the red-shirt guy
who enters the dining room can notice when loot is missing from a table.
The nobleman upstairs also notices missing loot (the two cups by the
chessboard). He even cried "Thief!" when I moved a junk vase away
from the wall and placed it on his bed. As with the "Chalice of
Kings," this guy will go on second alert when the required crown is taken.
To illustrate what happens:
1) I hit the secret switch to open the painting hiding the crown and other
loot. The switch can't be activated again to close the painting and the
compartments have their own light source. It's pretty impressive how the
nobleman, after standing in front of the dresser for some duration per his
patrol, will suspiciously look in the direction of the painting because he
notices missing loot:
2) He calmly continues his normal patrol until he gets to the plant stand,
after which he diverts from his patrol path and inspects the secret
compartment:
3) After about ten seconds he suddenly draws his sword, but he doesn't search
in any apparent second alert mode. He just resumes his normal patrol while
carrying his sword. In the event that more TDM FM's are created, the ghost
rules might have to address this. AI drawing swords in T3 denotes a second
alert, but I'm not so sure for TDM.
- 10-22-2009, 12:03 AM by Hexameron #81
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The Dark Mod
TDM FM: The Outpost
Perfect Thief - Success
Time - 00:32:20
Loot - 946/946
Pockets Picked - 0
Damage dealt - 0 Damage taken - 0
Kills - 0 Knockouts - 0
Bodies Found - 0
Health Restored - 0
Stealth Score - 8
Comments - Not much to say as far as ghosting. I had no problems at
all. I did douse a torch above a builder icon in the Bishop's room so he
wouldn't notice it missing.
I thought this was interesting: in the storage room there are a few barrels
that can be mantled onto. I managed to fall inside one and I'm excited to think
of the stealth possibilities if AI can't see through the barrels.
- 10-25-2009, 12:22 PM by Peter
Smith #82
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The Dark Mod
TDM FM: The Chalice of Kings
Ghost - Success (first time)
Perfect Thief - Success (after a BJ run)
Time - 04:17:43
Loot - 2956/2956
Pockets Picked - 6
Damage dealt - 0 Damage taken - 0
Kills - 0 Knockouts - 0
Bodies Found - 0
Health Restored - 0
Stealth Score - 0
Comments -- Well, I have no idea how Hexameron played this in
51:05. My time does include some time sleeping with head planted on the
keyboard, so I suppose it is possible. 
The
Dark Mod and this mission were entertaining enough that I wanted to finish it
last night, but I was forced to go to bed and continue this morning.
Anyway, bravo to the TDM people for developing this great mod and toolkit, and
thanks to Fidcal for the mission. As Hexameron said, this is what T3 should
have been. I hope TDM will be supremely successful.
Hexameron's report is unclear about one thing. If there was a second alert at
the crown, then how can the ghost be successful? That part could use some
editing.
Anyway, I completed the crown replacement successfully as follows. I found some
extra water arrows in the armory, so I was able to douse all torches in the
room, leaving only the electric light above the crown. Then I went to the
outside wall of the room, where the notch in the crown stand was facing me.
By creeping up close to the stand (no moss - just the creep key) and leaning
forward, I could take the real crown and substitute the fake one. Substituting
the fake one took some experimentation to figure out how to place an item taken
from inventory. You scroll through inventory until it shows, hit the R key to
bring it up front, position it, and hit the R key again to release it.
The creep key is a little different in TDM. In T2, when you hit creep, you move
forward. So, with my settings of always run and shift as slow (the way I like
it, to facilitate jumping), a crouch plus pressing creep and shift makes a very
slow forward motion. I have creep mapped to CTRL, so it is easy with one hand.
In TDM, creep is just a modifier, so I need to press creep, shift, and forward
arrow with one hand, which is a awkward but doable.
I found that if you leave the stand vacant long enough, say 10-20 seconds, the
AI get all excited about the missing crown. So, you need to be quick about
replacing it. Then they never alert.
As for the stealth score, I figured 0 was a perfect score until I read
Hexameron's report. Thanks for clarifying that Hexamon. I had no idea I was
being penalized for mutterings. There were plenty of them as I dashed around looking
for loot. But there were no alerts in the sense of breaking the ghosting rules.
So, the stealth score is not of much interest for ordinary ghosting -- only
supreme.
As for the loot, I searched quite a bit and could find no more. Haven't done a
BJ run yet. If I do and find more, I may edit my post.
EDIT. Found all the loot with a BJ run and went back to get it in ghost mode.
Items I had missed in my previous post were:
A small gray bowl in plain sight on a middle shelf in the kitchen storage room.
This bowl looks like a junk bowl found frequently in T2. I also saw goblets and
bottles that look like loot counterparts but which weren't loot. The lesson is,
you need to pick up everything and be quiet about it.
A statue of an animal found on the top shelf of a bookcase in the Library. This
was very hard to see as it was in a dark corner and could not be seen standing
close to the shelf. I finally saw it by carrying a candle around and jumping.
Carrying a candle is a good thing to do in TDM that cannot be done in T2. It
could be a problem if you are ghosting. In this instance, however, the candle
was already in the library, and the doors could be closed, so there was no
risk. Only experience is needed.
Last edited by Peter Smith; 10-27-2009 at 09:23 PM.
"What we've got here is a failure to communicate", the warden
(Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke
- 10-26-2009, 06:42 PM by Hexameron #83
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Originally
Posted by Peter Smith 
Well, I have no idea how Hexameron played this in 51:05.
I played it through once before my official ghost run.
Hexameron's report is unclear about one thing. If there was a second
alert at the crown, then how can the ghost be successful?... I found that if
you leave the stand vacant long enough, say 10-20 seconds, the AI get all
excited about the missing crown. So, you need to be quick about replacing it.
Then they never alert.
Peter, are you saying that you replaced the real crown with the fake one
and the patrolling guard didn't go to second alert? For me, it wasn't the two
idle guards around the pedestal but the patrolling one that notices the missing
crown. I painstakingly dropped my fake crown on the pedestal not three seconds
after looting the real crown, and when the patrolling guard made his round, he
went on second alert. You didn't have this trouble?
I thought the fake crown simply doesn't work and taking the real crown causes a
second alert for everyone. I suppose it's different than stealing The Eye in
T1's RTC, but since taking the crown per an explicit objective will eventually
alert nearby AI, I deemed it okay. Apparently I'm wrong since you replaced the
crown successfully - I will cross out my success status and replay the mission.
This is why I like seeing multiple ghost reports of the same FM: I learn when
I've made mistakes and how others solve them.
- 10-26-2009, 09:02 PM by Peter
Smith #84
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I didn't have that trouble. The only trouble I had was being clumsy
initially, dropping the crown in the wrong place, and being caught in the act.
But when I correctly placed the fake crown on the cloth part of the stand,
about in the center, nobody ever noticed. I exchanged the picture in my report
so you can see where I placed it. That is a picture of the fake crown. Maybe it
matters where you are standing when you place it. You can see my point of view.
I just slid it into the slot using my mouse wheel.
An explicit objective to take the crown does not mean that it is OK to cause a
delayed alert by the action.
The only reason the explicit objective rule is there concerns a somewhat
frequent requirement to kill the bad guy. That was ruled OK by the group
provided nobody, including the bad guy, is alerted in the process. In other
words, a sword fight would not be a success. It would be a success if you BJ'ed
the guy and took him to a quiet spot to finish him off.
Last edited by Peter Smith; 10-28-2009 at 08:08 PM.
"What we've got here is a failure to communicate", the warden
(Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke
- 11-02-2009, 11:39 PM by Peter
Smith #85
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TDM FM: The Crown of Penitence
Ghost - Failed, maybe
Perfect Thief - Failed, maybe
Time - 01:32:10
Loot - 1486/1486
Pockets Picked - 2
Damage dealt - 0, Damage taken - 0
Kills - 0, Knockouts - 0
Bodies Found - 0
Health Restored - 0
Stealth Score - 0
Comments
I didn't have any trouble ghosting this mission for the most part or with
taking any of the loot. There were a couple of places I had to watch my step,
but neither water nor moss were necessary.
When I took the crown, the Lord of the manor always came to the shelf it was on
and remarked that something was stolen. Then he drew his sword and went to look
in the corner near the secret switch and lit a torch. He kept his sword drawn
for the rest of the mission. I interpreted all of this as a bust. This is a
debatable point because it is unlike the behavior of T2.
I have noticed that in TDM an AI may be act slightly alert and not go into
hunting mode. But he will depart from his normal patrol and walk around. Then,
when he gets close enough to the player he may see him when right on top of
him, and then the AI immediately begins a melee.
An unfortunate thing about this particular mission design is that it is not
possible to close the painting door over the shelf after taking the crown so as
to avoid the alert-type behaviors.
In my first run through the mission I missed three loot items: a ring on the
upstairs desk (I was preoccupied with the crown), a gold plate in a corner of
the dining room (very easy - just careless), and a coin on the floor worth 1.
The latter was a little difficult to find, but I knew what I would be looking
for so I went for the gambling table. It was under the table and could not be
frobbed without moving a chair. I liked that. I found this missing loot in a BJ
run and went back for it in ghost mode.
While going back for loot, I could not read the loot total at the bottom of the
screen. I saw only the first three digits. Not realizing even that, I had to go
back to the exit several times to see my stats. One feature I like in T2, even
though it momentary destroys immersion, is CTRL-ALT-SHIFT-END. It is a quick
way to get a current stats report without having to play the mission to the
end. I use it a lot when loot hunting or ghosting and trying for Perfect Thief.
That handy feature is missing from TDM.
During this loot hunt, Doom3 kept crashing on me while I was saving or loading
a save-game. It crashed a couple of times as I approached the exit grate. The
crash was not repeatable.
Last edited by Peter Smith; 11-02-2009 at 11:42 PM.
"What we've got here is a failure to communicate", the warden
(Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke
- 11-06-2009, 12:39 AM by Peter
Smith #86
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TDM FM: The Outpost
Perfect Thief - Success
Time - 01:29:52
Loot - 946/946
Pockets Picked - 0
Damage dealt - 0 Damage taken - 0
Kills - 0 Knockouts - 0
Bodies Found - 0
Health Restored - 0
Stealth Score - 0
Comments No ghosting problems, as Hexameron said. The mission was a
little on the small side, although I liked the design and atmosphere. I entered
the Bishop's room from the church by rope, thinking this would be clever, only
to find out that there was a direct route. I didn't dowse the torch in the
Bishop's room. I went back to see if there was some problem there, and I did
not detect one.
Last edited by Peter Smith; 11-06-2009 at 01:33 AM.
"What we've got here is a failure to communicate", the warden
(Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke
- 11-07-2009, 01:21 AM by Peter
Smith #87
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TDM FM: Patently Dangerous
Ghost - Success
Perfect Thief - Success (with help)
Time - 02:27:29
Loot - 1762/1762
Pockets Picked - 4
Damage dealt - 0, Damage taken - 0
Kills - 0, Knockouts - 0
Bodies Found - 0
Health Restored - 0
Stealth Score - 0
Comments
In my opinion this is the best TDM FM to date. It is small but has good game
play. It has lots of well hidden things, lots of roof hopping and vertical
elements (but no rope arrows), challenging exploration, and worthwhile
ghosting. The ghosting was not difficult, but there were AI swarming all around
some key places, and they had unpredictable patrol routes. Sometimes I just had
to charge out there and take my chances.
There were a number of routes that bypassed some of the AI. I usually found
them after ghosting the tricky areas. These routes were helpful when
back-tracking. Examples are a ladder to bypass a tunnel and Soren's house,
which goes from one side of the map to the other.
I took an unconventional route over the roofs and found a better way later (as
usual). The way I did it at first was to take a crate from the attic of
Harlan's house and use it to mantle onto a flat roof in the adjacent street. I
placed the crate on a wagon wheel to gain extra height I needed. This route
took me to Damuddy's house. Once out of there, I took the crate back to the
attic and went out on the roof to get to other places like Soren's and
Fressard's. At the end of the mission, I went on a BJ run to try to find more
loot and found a back route from a window in Soren's laboratory that, had I
found it in time, would have made a much easier route to the flat roof and made
it unnecessary to carry the crate all around.
Some of the loot was tricky, too. One of the trickiest bits I found was in
Damuddy's office. There is a bookcase there which, if you stick your face into
it and frob, you hear a clicking sound. I did not realize it at first, but on
my 2nd or 3rd trip there I realized that I could blind lock pick a door behind
the bookcase. Then when I went to the side of the bookcase, I could barely see
a crack in the door I had opened, from which I could take four pieces of loot.
This seemed strange. I thought that it should have been possible to move the
bookcase to the side for all of this, but I could not find a way to do it.
Another tricky bit was an item that looked like a cotton bale in the warehouse
-- 200 goods.
Missing only 15 -- I'll probably keep hunting for it, but it is too late to
continue this evening.
EDIT: Thanks to piln at TTLG for pointing me to the bookcase switch, which was
located behind a table leg at floor level. There was a tiny gem worth 15 at the
right side of the safe that was too far away to blind frob with the bookcase in
place.
Last edited by Peter Smith; 11-07-2009 at 09:02 PM.
"What we've got here is a failure to communicate", the warden
(Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke
- 11-07-2009, 12:07 PM by Fidcal #88
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Hi, this is Fidcal aka YeeHar. Only just found this thread. Some good
reports here and I'm pleased to read the FMs are being played how I think they
ought to be played - slow and stealthy!
Just to clarify the fake crown alert situation in Chalice of Kings: The display
stand was designed to obscure the direct line of sight of the two standing
sentries so they will not directly notice if the crown is missing. The two
patrolling guards go around the front of that stand so they will notice (I am
unsure if sometimes they might not but in every case I tested they did.) The
guy who patrols through the banquet hall can also just about see the crown. So,
you need to get into position and wait until you judge the two patrolling
guards are at their furthest (timewise) and also the banquet hall guy (who goes
randomly to either door so some luck involved.) You then have a small time
window to remove the real crown and replace it with the brass one before any of
the patrolling AI come back. Once any of those alert of course then the
standing sentries will join in so you need to be on your way before that
because these AI can see better into shadows when alert. Or rather, when alert
they are more likely to notice you just as you might not notice a guard
standing in deep shadow if you weren't particularly looking. Yes,
it can be ghosted without moss or water and no alerts.
Meanwhile I continue to work on another mansion mission but much bigger and
with lots of ghosting fun to be had; hopefully early in the New Year.
- 11-25-2009, 06:26 AM by Fidcal #89
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In my next Dark Mod FM I've realized I can set up an optional no alerts
objective. What this means is if you cause an alert then a message shows
'Failed Objective' or similar and the objectives screen now shows that
objective marked with an X. The mission continues however so it's not
irritating to non-ghosters or semi-ghosters.
Question: what level to set the alert on? We have 5 levels. I'm unsure without
checking the exact specs but something like: muttering, muttering with casual
scan, search, agitated search, full alert.
I'm even wondering whether to have two such objectives, eg,
"Try not to be seen (optional)" - this would only fail on 5, full
alert.
"Try to make sure that nobody thinks there might be someone there
(optional)" - this I think would fail on 3: search, but allow muttering
with casual scan.
Need to word that better.
And of course it could be done differently on different difficulty levels. But
I see no reason to omit it because it is optional.
There are also non-human alerts, spiders, rats, zombies, belchers, but I'm
doubtful these should fail the objective.
- 11-25-2009, 09:05 AM by goldsla #90
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My opinion only: Any searching activity is a bust. Muttering with casual
scan, is a bust. All creatures which can attack or communicate an alert to
someone who can attack should be included. Traditionally, rats are the only
critters, I believe, which are not included in ghost busts. You should read the offical
ghosting rules.
LarryG (aka goldsla)
- 11-25-2009, 09:50 AM by Fidcal #91
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Yes, since posting the above I already reduced the low alert to 2.
- 11-28-2009, 12:33 PM by Peter
Smith #92
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T2 FM: Eclipsed
Ghost - Success
Perfect Thief - Failed miserably
Time - 06:33:57
Loot - 2341/2970
Pockets Picked - 0 of 0
Damage dealt - 0, Damage taken - 0
Kills - 0, Knockouts - 0
Bodies Found - 0
Secrets Found - 0 of 0
Comments
This mission by HipBreaker was released for Halloween because it is scary. In
the first half of the mission, you approach a town through some nice marshy
areas, and then you wander around in a deserted town by the sea. You find that
there has been a lot of destruction and killing by unknown monsters. You find many
notes about how frighting, dark, and depressing it is. The ambient sounds help
set the mood, too. Pretty soon, the player (I) starts to get anxious and
depressed.
The mission is very well designed in terms of the mood, atmosphere, textures,
sound, and scenery. Exploration in the horizontal direction is challenging.
Objects and some routes are hard to find. In essence, the design is a key hunt,
and you have to search diligently to get throught it.
In the vertical direction, the design has some some limitations. There are no
rope arrows. If you can find a way to climb to the rooftops, as I did, you find
some scene complexity errors that cause crashes. To prevent that problem, the
author has placed transparent barriers in many places, which can be a little
frustrating. It is necessary to climb up in at least one place to find
necessary things. Since things are very well hidden, you run around bumping
your head on barriers, you stack crates to no avail, but sometimes the climbing
pays off. That is really the only problem in an otherwise very well done
mission. But it is a minor problem and did not detract from my fun.
After a while, you find a key that takes you to the "mountain", where
you find all the monsters are holed up. Then the ghosting starts. To leave that
area, you must find some "relics" and activate a transporter. The
relic hunting is a challenge, too. One of the relics is accessible only by
figuring out an obscure code puzzle. On your escape through the transporter,
you find that other transporters have allowed the monsters to re-enter the
town. Then, anything (like loot) that you did not find in the empty period
becomes harder to find with the monsters around.
One of the nicer transporters is shown below.
The rectangles are circling around. It reminded me of "2001, a Space
Odessy".
The ghosting is straightforward for the most part. One ghosting challenge is
that some of the AI are partially transparent, as in Equilibrium, so unless you
stay on your toes it is easy to be tripped up by them. Another class of AI are
tall and skinny modified tree beasts. These guys are very fast and nearly
silent, so it is hard to predict when they will come wheeling around a corner
and nail you. Although this adds to the startle factor, it makes for a lot of
reloads while ghosting.
There is one place near the end where you must use a "station key",
which turns out to open a police station. I mention that because the name on
the key is misleading, and the police station has no sign. There is also an
electric power station with an obvious sign that you cannot enter at that
point. In the police station you find the "access key" to the
electric power station -- another confusing name. In the electric power
station, there is a metal bridge that gave me some ghosting problems. It turns
out that the AI below have sharp vision but very poor hearing. Not knowing
this, I spent a lot of time trying using moss to run across the metal bridge. I
kept alerting the AI below. Eventually I got the idea that vision was more
important than sound. Without using any moss, I could observe the AI patrol
below, time the run just right, and run across the bridge without being seen.
I spent a fair amount of time trying to increase my loot total without success.
My problem was not the ghosting but being unable to find any more. I also was
unable to complete an objective to piece together some information. I assume
this means to read a certain set of readables, but evidently I missed one or
more. Maybe there is an area with both a readable and a lot of loot that I
missed entirely.
Last edited by Peter Smith; 11-28-2009 at 08:14 PM.
"What we've got here is a failure to communicate", the warden
(Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke
- 12-04-2009, 10:57 PM by Peter
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T2 FM: Quelle Galere (What a Drag!)
Ghost - Success (based on LOTP interpretation)
Perfect Thief - Success (based on RTC interpretation - maybe)
Time - 01:47:35
Loot - 1300/1200 (counting error - 1300 is max)
Pockets Picked - 2 of 10 (error in stats - probably AI keys)
Damage dealt - 0, Damage taken - 0
Kills - 0, Knockouts - 0
Bodies Found - 0
Secrets Found - 3 of 3
Comments
This mission first came out in November 2005 as a French-only mission. An
English translation was added about a year later. Owing to the difficulty
caused by non-French versions of Thief not displaying any texts, the mission
did not get the attention it deserved initially. I played it once some time
ago, but I don't think I finished it. Since I saw a recent posting at TTLG, my
interest was piqued again.
This mission is really a very nice ghosting mission and a lot of fun to play.
It has good, detailed architecture, varied territory, fun, scripted events, and
some nice puzzles and route finding problems. A screen shot of the pool area
shows the above average architecture.
the pool
I highly recommend this mission with one caveat....
The mission is complicated, with a large number of semi-secret buttons and
switches, some of which have remote action. It is intended to be played in a
certain order. If you can figure that out, the game play is not too hard.
However, it is easy to stray from the intended order, which can cause some
confusion. I played it yesterday in the wrong order, and this made ghosting
more difficult but more fun. The planned route smooths things out considerably.
At the end of this first attempt, I finished the mission (Success message) with
1100 of 1200 loot, failing ghost by tripping an alarm, with the last objective
(save Agnes) unchecked. More on that below.
Optimal route
In my second attempt, with stats reported herein, I tried to find the optimal
route. In case you get confused by this mission, as I did, and want to know my
route, I'll list it below under spoiler tags. This is a very abbreviated walk
through.
1. Induce guard to drink wine -- passes out leaving door open.
2. Flip a switch that opens a secret (unseen) door behind a painting (secret
1).
3. Place a statue in the empty pool alcove (secret 2) to open a passage that
leads to a dead researcher. Get blue key.
4. Find rope arrows under crate.
5. Go to end of the passage. Rope up or climb crates to find a switch that
opens up additional areas.
6. In Zyk's apartment, find a copper-colored key and a passage to a large
bookshelf.
7. Open the bookshelf, revealing another passage.
8. Get the gear key + find Agnes. Get new objectives.
9. Take the passage to a transporter and re-enter the pool area.
19. Go into the painting door. Switch off watchers. Open 1st gate with the blue
key and 2nd gate with the gear key.
11. Solve the statue code puzzle to activate a small lift.
12. Go up the lift and turn off the turret on rails.
13. Go down and jump onto the central beam (moss it first).
14. Go to the end of the beam and flip a switch activating a ramp.
15. Turn off the electric gate to the security hallway.
16. Go into the security hallway and find a room at the end with a combo switch
to activate the elevator.
17. Take the elevator up, solve the kitchen puzzle, and find the hand of glory.
18. Take the elevator down, and place the hand of glory on its pedestal (past
the elevator combo).
19. Proceed to several new areas, which end with rescuing Agnes.
False starts
I took a non-optimal route initially in three ways. These things did not affect
the end result. It only made ghosting more difficult and disclosed a bug in the
ending objectives. The false starts were actually more fun than doing it right,
so I'll tell you about those.
One false start was near the beginning, when I attacked the security corridor
prematurely.
electric fence at start of security hallway
I mantled over the electric fence (not supposed to do), and got onto the
central beam and finally the exit ramp while the turret on tracks was still
running. This was a real kick, actually, and required lots of practice to get
right. I chased the turrett down its ledge, jumped over the turret when it was
returning, found a spot where I could jump over to the beam (which is barely
possible), and crawled to the ramp switch. Then I turned off the turrett, too
late to do any good.
The second thing I did wrong was to find the hand of glory (completing that
objective) before finding Agnes for the first time. I missed the bookcase route
completely. As a result, when I finally found Agnes and the gear key, the
mission ended abruptly because all current objectives had been completed, but
the new "save Agnes" objective that popped up simultaneously was
unchecked and unachievable. By not opening the bookcase route before going to
the end (which is easy to do), I locked myself into the ending area with no
escape, unable to return and find out what was behind the gear lock door. This
is a minor design defect, but that is OK. It was fun anyway.
The third thing I did wrong was near the end, in a room where the urn is lifted
to the room above. Much had been written about the urn, so I naturally thought
it was an important part of the game. When you activate a switch to lift the
urn out of its display case, an alarm goes off, and the ghost is busted. You
can prevent damage to yourself by going upstairs first and reversing some
security gates, which keeps the goosey guard from killing you. I think this is
the intended play, but there are two things wrong with it. First, it busts the
ghost. Second, there is no requirement or advantage to lifting the urn. It is a
red herring. Again, this is a minor design defect but OK. It was a pleasure to
see that I could preserve the ghost simply by not doing it.
There were quite a few ghosting challenges that required some attention to
detail but nothing super heroic. Overall, it was a fun mission to ghost.
Ghosting
One area of ghosting interest was in the security corridor. There is a very
goosey guard in a room near the end. When you extinguish the light in his room,
he says "Ah!" but never moves or shifts. I interpreted this as allowed.
Anyway, after that, with all lights extinguished throughout, and the light gem
black, he seems to have his night vision goggles on. He spots the slightest
movements (slowest possible creep) when entering the door to the room with the
elevator combination lock. I got busted there many times. The solution is to
realize that there is a narrow path crossing the hallway that you can creep
inside and not be seen. That path extends from the guard's door jamb to the
light switch opposite. Then you have to do a careful creep from the light
switch around the door jamb of the combination lock room.
Another place of interest was the kitchen puzzle. Somewhere there is a readable
which states that people will come to dinner when the gong is rung. That is an
important clue that something will open up. When you do ring the gong, you need
to time it so the kitchen maid does not alert, and then dash to a nearby
doorway, which you have previously darkened. Then you watch there for another
guard to appear from a previously closed wooden gate and go to the kitchen.
Then you must time it again to run through the wooden gate into a new area
(before the guard closes it) not disturbing either the guard or the maid. Oh,
and you need the kitchen key, which is another nice little puzzle, before you
can do any of this.
Another place, which was more frustrating than interesting, was the room with
the urn lift.
urn lift room
You need to go in there anyway to unlock a lock which, while it is locked,
prevents a wall switch from opening a passage to the end of the mission. I said
there were lots of switches, didn't I? Anyway, the room is watched by a guard
who detects any amount of light easily, and it is hard to prevent the light gem
from flickering. You start by dowsing the lamp in front of the door. Then you
dowse two braziers. Then you can poke into the room just far enough to dowse a
lamp above the ceiling -- through a grate, no less. Then you can poke in just a
little farther to dowse another lamp above. So now it seems kind of dark, but
when you move off station, there is that gem flickering again, and the guard is
on you. The trick here is to put some moss on the floor and dash to the
opposite door jamb on your right. About a 50% chance of success here. If you
make it, then you can enter the room with the lock. But, it is extremely difficult
to get back out. It is made easier if you take the lantern on the table and
throw it in the far corner, so less light is coming out the door when you exit.
A lot of saves and reloads are needed here. I suggest a slot save before you
start.
Finally, after completing the mission with a clean ghost and 1050 / 1200 loot,
I went back to tackle a problem area, the last loot I needed for Perfect Thief.
Above the end of the dead researcher's passage (step 5 above), there is a
not-so-obvious higher area. In that area, you will find a drill bit worth 250.
drill bit room
On taking the drill bit, the banner door on your right opens, and a skelly
comes out, already in alert mode. I mossed the floor and dashed into a dark
side passage, so I am quite sure the skelly did not see or hear me. Anyway, he
came out alerted at the beginning. I think his behavior is analogous to the
haunts in Return to the Cathedral. In RTC, when you take the eye, it sets off a
scripted silent alarm. All the haunts go on alert, but the haunts do not see
you if you do it right. This scripted alert in RTC is allowed by the Ghost
Rules. This situation with the skelly is essentially the same. It is harder to
verify because you cannot just stand there in the dark and observe. You are
dashing into the hallway at top speed, watching the left edge of the banner and
never seeing Mr. Skelly. So, If you can't see him, can he see you? Is that a
success? I think so, but you be the judge. Once hidden in the dark hallway, the
skelly wanders in (not seeing or looking for you), and you can run around him,
flip a switch, and escape. That part is definitely clean.
/ghosting
Ending
The end is interesting, as are many other places. I found the room into which
the urn can be lifted, the room containing the lamps above the grate, which I
had previously dowsed. Then, after flipping some switches, a script executed in
which a kind lady helped me by giving me a pet fire elemental. The fire elemental
opens a door and an entry gate. I went through the gate and the door, hit a
button, and I and my pet were transported to a jail room. In there, the fire
elemental kills three bad guys and (maybe) a zombie that spawns from one of
them. Results vary, so you may need to reload and repeat the transport to
compete the job. No damage appears in your stats, and you didn't cause the
event (my opinion on that situation, which resembles the archer fight in LOTP).
Then you can open the cell door and save Agnes, finishing the mission.
It is possible to go to that same jail area in the early part of the mission
without using the transporter and without your elemental pet in tow, but if you
attempt to extinguish the lights, thinking you can sneak down to the cell area,
the bad guys are alerted, which leads eventually to a mission failure. Try
that, too, but save first. You will enjoy the script.
Loot
The loot stat is interesting because I got more than the advertised total (1300
/ 1200). The most likely cause is a counting bug. Nightwalker has confirmed
that 1300 is the loot total. So, Perfect Thief really requires 1300 / 1200.
An amusing aspect of the loot (to me) is that I "cheated" (broke the
game) in one spot. There is a room with a large loot stash that is a trap.
loot room
A lady thief sets a trap door that drops you in the water as you try to enter
the loot room. Then she takes all the loot and thanks you for doing her work. I
avoided the trap and got into the loot room by skirting counterclockwise around
the region that trips the trap door. I found I could take two purses that rang
like loot but did not add to the loot total. The other stuff had 0 value. Since
the total didn't increase, I just went on, thinking that it didn't make any
difference. Evidently it doesn't.
Last edited by Peter Smith; 12-05-2009 at 03:41 PM.
"What we've got here is a failure to communicate", the warden
(Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke
- 12-08-2009, 09:31 PM by Hexameron #94
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Wow, Peter. I applaud you for that epic ghost report of "What a
Drag!" Of course, I agree that your ghost and PT successes are justified.
Seeing that screenshot of the fountain with the pink fish jogged my memory that
I have played this FM before. I probably played the French version and never
finished it owing to all the secret switches.
I like your phrase "goosey guard" to describe the one who screamed
"Ah!" but didn't go on 2nd alert - I've certainly had my fair share
of those.
- 12-09-2009, 05:18 PM by Hexameron #95
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FM: The Builder's Hammer
File: thehammer.zip
Ghost - Failed
Time - 00:02:55
Loot - 0/50
Pockets Picked - 0/1
Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 2 Damage taken - 6
Healing taken - 0 Kills - 1
Bodies Discovered by Enemies - 1
Cause of Failure
-Cannot sneak by any of the apebeasts in the cave
Comments - This is a very small and old FM and one that I found
frustrating. The player is trapped underground with no weapons (apparently the
Builder stole them from Garrett). The exit to the surface is blocked off with
an invisible barrier that deals damage when touched. There is a teleportation
pad nearby that takes the player to a cavern full of apebeasts. It is this
cavern that really annoyed me. First of all, the brightness of the cavern is
fixed and there are no shadows, which means no sneaking is possible. The
apebeasts do not pivot and are positioned in such a way that makes
confrontation unavoidable:
For the longest time, I could not get through without dying. I really didn't
know what I was supposed to do in the cave anyway - loot all of the chests?
Okay - I loot one with a gas arrow and a wine bottle while taking numerous
blowdart hits. I loot the next one with a blackjack - what good is this going
to do me when it can't be retrieved without alerting everyone? Another chest
ended up being empty. I made a lot of random charging and dodging and could not
get to every chest and back to the teleportation pad without dying.
I needed a game plan!
So I drew up a Maddenesque football plan in my head: where I would run to
first, which chests to loot, and how to take advantage of the terrain. It
worked best to run to the first circle on the left and then towards the chest
to the far right. Once at the chest, I would have everyone in a synchronized
3rd alert. Synchronization is important because I could duck when two apebeast
blowdarters fire simultaneously. The trick to surviving is knowing when to
crouch after the apebeasts fire their missiles. I managed to hide behind a
boulder and gas one blowdarter. I used my blackjack as a club on one meleeing
apebeast who actually ended up dying via friendly fire. Once I picked up the
explosives, I ran back to the teleportation pad with only a few health shields
left. This isn't Thief, it's rugby.
Once I was back to the safety of the mission start, I could tinker with the
explosives, which work like fire arrows. I shot one at the invisible barrier,
destroying it and completing the mission successfully.
Last edited by Hexameron; 12-09-2009 at 05:22 PM.
- 12-09-2009, 06:06 PM by Hexameron #96
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FM: The Ring
File: ring.zip
Ghost - Failed
Time - 01:02:18
Loot - 7250/7350
Pockets Picked - 16/23
Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 29
Damage dealt - 89 Damage taken - 0
Healing taken - 0 Kills - 0
Bodies Discovered by Enemies - 3
Secrets Found - 4/4
Causes of Failure:
1. Cannot sneak by servant in Truart's house
2. Cannot sneak by patrolling archer on balcony of Truart's house.
3. Cannot sneak by idle archer near portcullis leading to Truart's.
Comments - I put a lot of effort into trying to ghost this one. I
was able to successfully thwart all difficult ghosting spots outside of
Truart's estate. Getting into Truart's estate without alerting multiple guards
is a rub. There's a pivoting archer in the foyer and two patrolling guards
outside, one of which who enters the foyer. With precise timing, I was able to
run inside Truart's foyer and use the double doors to block the archer's view
so he couldn't see me:
I could then moss the floor, wait for the archer to look the other way, and run
to the door leading upstairs moments before a patrolling guard enters the
foyer:
Unfortunately, this female servant ended my success streak:
I nudged her into the chair on the right, but it wasn't enough and I couldn't
get beyond the door without her seeing me. Ultimately, she wasn't the real
problem - the patrolling archer in the next room was. His patrol is too short
and I couldn't get by him without being seen or heard.
I ended up KOing everyone in the mission because of my desperate search for
loot. The mission requires 7000 and the author is a sadist when hiding items.
For me, this was probably one of the hardest missions vis-a-vis finding loot.
The author liked putting tiny rings inside totally inconspicuous niches often
in illogical areas. Additionally, it was difficult to frob the loot in some
niches, so the loot hunt was extremely taxing; I almost gave up and aborted.
Last edited by Hexameron; 12-09-2009 at 06:10 PM.
- 12-09-2009, 06:31 PM by Hexameron #97
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FM: Mr. J's Ring
File: mrjrng.zip
Ghost - Failed and aborted
Time - 00:44:28
Loot - 1427/1427
Pockets Picked - 0/2
Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 0
Damage dealt - 177 Damage taken - 0
Healing taken - 0 Kills - 8
Bodies Discovered by Enemies - 5
Cause of Failure
-Cannot sneak by 80% of the AI in this mission
Comments - No blackjack and no chance of sneaking... Not a winning
combination for any Thief player, hence Komag's old FM rating of 2. Nearly
every AI in this mission was placed in such a way that the player could not
avoid being detected. I really don't understand why some authors do this. If
you're going to put a guard facing the only direction a player can approach
from, at least give us a sporting chance by having the guard pivot.
-I did well for the first two guards: the one in front of the gate and the
female cop outside of the rich house. I nudged them both forward, but they
would have to be alerted and killed eventually. Other guards nearby were just
impossible to deal with.
-The sound propagation was so bad that AI on the other side of the mission
heard noises happening seemingly a mile away.
-Hallways were cramped and the lighting was awkward with strong contrasts of
bright and pitch black. Essentially, if I wanted to do anything in this
mission, I needed to slaughter everyone.
-The pub contained over 500 loot worth of wine bottles and 1000 loot is
required, so I had to kill everyone inside.
-I had to find a key to open a small box back at the mission start; taking the
key inside the locked box is an objective, but it was never checked off.
-There's no way to sneak by any of the zombies in the crypt. At least I had
holywater and water arrows.
-I looted what appeared to be Mr. J's ring (obj) lying on a sarcophagus.
Frobbing the ring put it in my loot inventory, but no objective was checked
off.
-I checked one of the few TTLG threads on this FM and it appears no
one has ever completed all of the objectives, so I had to abort.
- 12-09-2009, 06:42 PM by Tannar #98
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Thanks for the reports Peter and Hexameron. I enjoyed reading them.
That's a lot of frustration, Hexameron, one after another. 
Really nice job on Quelle Galere, Peter.
- 12-11-2009, 03:47 PM by Hexameron #99
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FM: The Wickerman
File: wickerman.zip
Ghost - Failed
Time - 00:14:23
Loot - 0/0
Pockets Picked - 2/4
Backstabs - 0 Knockouts - 1
Damage dealt - 35 Damage taken - 0
Healing taken - 0 Kills - 3
Bodies Discovered by Enemies - 1
Causes of Failure:
1. Cannot sneak by green spider in cave
2. Cannot exit cave without slashing a spider web
3. Must destroy wickerman structure using powder keg and fire arrow; doing so
kills at least two AI and alerts at least one other
Comments - I seem to remember this FM being reported many years
ago, but I can't find the report. I was busted right from the start with this
green spider blocking my path. A single broadhead was my only option. I also
needed to cut down the spider web, which I assume is the equivalent of slashing
a banner, in order to progress.
The little girl I was supposed to save is standing at the top of the wickerman.
My objective is to ensure she survives and bring her to the cave where I
started. To do that, I needed to knock her out Brother Cavador style. Once I
dropped her body back at the cave, I placed the powder keg in the wickerman and
used a fire arrow from a nearby hill. The explosion killed three cultists and
alerted one other.
I had trouble earlier finding the personal effect of the cult leader. The
objectives weren't clear if I were to steal it from the cult leader's belt or
from somewhere in the mission itself. It was difficult to distinguish who the
cult leader was, so I checked each cultist carefully and noticed this small
signet ring on one of the guy's fingers:
- 12-11-2009, 04:09 PM by Hexameron #100
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FM: Cragscright Prison
File: paweuek.zip
Ghost - Failed
Time - 00:18:34
Loot - 615/695
Pockets Picked - 3/4
Backstabs - 3 Knockouts - 14
Damage dealt - 101 Damage taken - 0
Healing taken - 0 Kills - 4
Secrets Found - 1/1
Causes of Failure:
1. Cannot sneak by prisoners or archer in main cell block
2. Cannot sneak by female cop guarding special prisoners
3. Cannot kill the special prisoners (objective) without alerting them and
other AI
4. Cannot sneak by mechanists in small chapel
Comments - This is a polish mission and the objectives were
incomprehensible. One objective was blank and it checked off after I looted
some gold dice. I figured out after a long BJ and killing spree, that my
objectives were to kill Truart, the Karras lookalike, and a hand brotherhood
mage. Stealthily killing the two special prisoners can't be achieved and the
female cop sees you enter the cell block.
I was able to get into the prison past the two guards at the gate with no
problems. I could even follow and ultimately circumvent the patrolling bluecoat
down the very narrow hallway. The trick is to follow his short patrol down the
hallway, start picking the door on the left, run back to the entrance as the
bluecoat turns, and repeat until the door is picked open. It took 5-6 attempts.
Getting into the picked room without alerting the watcher in the opposite room
is difficult, but it can be done.
Unfortunately, that's as far as my ghosting went. There's just no way to get
through the main prison cell block undetected. The room is bright, an archer is
watching a necessary path, and the prisoners are facing different directions
and can see most of the cell block.
I also couldn't enter the mechanist chapel without alerting everyone inside - I
KOed a lot of them. I think I ended up KOing everyone in the mission.